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Re: [tlaplus] On a type of TLA+ contract



Re: Arthur Daniels' message:

Just an idea, a consultant business model could be organizational training, root and branch system checking for consequential bugs in its current state, and perhaps system reconfiguration/optimization accordingly.

That is probably true, and closer to the model that Hillel Wayne uses for his contracts (running TLA+ workshops).

Andrew

On Tue, Jul 8, 2025 at 1:38 PM Arthur Daniels <danielsjarthur@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I am early in my TLA+ journey and look forward to becoming proficient. I am grateful for the generous contributions of the community from which I can continue learning. I fully believe in the benefits TLA+ can deliver. I am not a developer, but have many friends who are.

Speaking with them, I believe they conceptually feel TLA+ is a great idea, but fail to realize the direct benefit to their project given the upfront investment in learning TLA+ and extensive upfront planning. I get the feeling there's sometimes pressure to get results delivered quickly and TLA+ presents an investment in time that runs counter to that.

The issue as I understand it is not the benefit that TLA+ can deliver, the resources available or otherwise. I feel the issue is the demonstration that the benefits that TLA+ can deliver justify the investment in learning and continuous usage where appropriate.

Perhaps the issue raised by Andrew is not specifically around the terms or structure of the contract, but moreso how could a TLA+ expert implement it's continuous usage into an organization; demonstrating it's value and changing development processes to include its implementation wholesale within the organization at the very beginning.


Just an idea, a consultant business model could be organizational training, root and branch system checking for consequential bugs in its current state, and perhaps system reconfiguration/optimization accordingly.

Best, 

Arthur Daniels
+1 416 786 9130

On Fri, Jul 4, 2025, 18:04 Irwansyah Irwansyah <irwansyah@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Andrew,

I believe the root questions need to be answered are:

Why a company have to asked you for the short term contract?

Because, they don't have staff that knows TLA+.

Why they don't have the staff?

Because TLA+ engineer is hard to find

Why TLA+ engineer is hard to find?

Because it is hard for non math person to learn TLA+

Why it is hard for non math person to learn TLA+?

Because there is no complete and easy to read books teaching TLA+ in real world usage?

Why there is no complete and easy to read books teaching TLA+ in real world usage?

Because there is no incentives to open the knowledge to public

Why there is no incentives to open the knowledge to public?

Because...


Irwan

On Saturday, July 5, 2025, Andrew Helwer <andrew.helwer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi all,

I wrote a post on a type of TLA+ contract I've done a few times, why it never worked out as well as hoped, and what could be changed so future contracts see more success:


Andrew Helwer

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